Serial Number and Model Listing

[pete]

PARTIAL. NOT COMPLETE. STILL WORKING ON IT.

I'll eventually make a shiny webpage, too.

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The Serial Number Mega Post

-> Note that Yamaha serial numbers don't seem to correspond to anything, in particular.
-> American-made stencils do not have extant serial number charts. There are some theories about Pan American serial numbers in comparison to Conn pro horns, but the theories don't always work.
-> European stencils generally use the same charts as the horns they were stenciled from.
-> I can kinda-sorta figure serial number charts for Dolnet and Hohner, as the former had an M70 model introduced in 1970 and the latter had an anniversary model stamped with the date.

If any of the links "die", I'd recommend checking the Internet Wayback Machine at http://www.archive.org.

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Update. I've created a very comprehensive chart with a lot of info at http://thesax.info/serials.htm.

I'm still testing it. Please, feedback is requested.

[Gandalfe]

Whoa, this seriously nice. Thanks Pete!

[pete]

Not a problem.

The vast majority of the above is from MusicTrader.com and Steve's Clarinet Perfection website. I've got some of my own serial charts I made, as well as links to saxpics.com. I've got several other good charts in my archived bookmarks, too.

[pete]

Wanted: more serials for the above list.

One addition:

COUESNON: Saxophones and others. Before 1937 (or so), there is a "grenade fruit" engraved/stamped on the bell with a number. The number is the date of manufacture.

I just played around with Google. If you want Muramatsu or Gemeinhardt serials, you have to call them. Which sucketh. Both sets of numbers HAVE been available online, at some point, so if anyone's got the list, send links my way.

[pete]

I'm about halfway finished turning this into a snazzy HTML file. I'll post a link when it's finished.

[pete]

Updated! Link added to original post.

[SteveSklar]

that's odd ... i keep getting my website when checking out the clarinet stuff :mrgreen:

btw, i have more Malerne info coming soon including their weird metal bore lined wood upper joint D ? series .. the next time I upload

[pete]

Sounds great, Steve.

The only thing that I know, definitively about Malerne is that they were bought out by SML in the 1970's. They definitely made at least two different models of saxophone, themselves, but used Buffet as their top-pro line. There are some rumblings that Robert Malerne worked for Noblet or Leblanc prior to founding his own company, but I can't actually confirm that.

[pete]

Update to the chart posted. About a half-dozen more manufacturers. I changed some of the formatting, too.

[SteveSklar]

FYI, since that list was put together I changed my website.
Now all the clarinet SN# are on different pages
there's still a master page but out of date and no pics

[pete]

FYI, since that list was put together I changed my website.
Now all the clarinet SN# are on different pages
there's still a master page but out of date and no pics
Luser.

:D

I'll update my list sometime. I wanted to add Wayback Machine links, just in case a webpage went *poof*, anyway.

[Groovekiller]

Do you have a list of Pan American saxophone serial numbers?

[SteveSklar]

Luser.

:D

I'll update my list sometime. I wanted to add Wayback Machine links, just in case a webpage went *poof*, anyway.

fine .. i'll change it again after you finish updating your links !! :twisted:

[pete]

Do you have a list of Pan American saxophone serial numbers?
Pan American and Conn Stencil saxophone serial number charts have been attempted by a couple folks, but they never seem to be completed. I've advocated the, "Well, if your P-A is serial #12,345 and has single-side bell keys, add 67,890 to it and then look at the pro Conn chart." I stopped advocating this because it works about as well as me saying that a single-side bell key P-A was made in the 1940's.

If you know of a *posted* complete or even partially complete chart, I'd be more than happy to link to it!

[Adevine]

Sounds great, Steve.

The only thing that I know, definitively about Malerne is that they were bought out by SML in the 1970's. They definitely made at least two different models of saxophone, themselves, but used Buffet as their top-pro line. There are some rumblings that Robert Malerne worked for Noblet or Leblanc prior to founding his own company, but I can't actually confirm that.

For Malerne information contact Gary Ray at Wichita Band Inst. Co. He has a blurb about Noblet and Vito history currently appearing in the used woodwind section on their site. There is also some history information at these two posts about Malerne, one by Mr. Ray.

http://www.lynsgarden.co.uk/Gary.html (http://www.lynsgarden.co.uk/Gary.html)

http://www.lynsgarden.co.uk/Clarinets.html (http://www.lynsgarden.co.uk/Clarinets.html)

[pete]

In the meantime, rest assured that your alto clarinet was made in France by Robert Malerne, right before Buffet-Crampon took 'em over.
Unfortunately, as mentioned, I have other source material that says that Malerne was purchased by SML, not by Buffet. My information ... came from SML :).

I try not to get into a shouting match with other people and their histories. Primarily because I'd be willing to be that Mr. Ray can whip out a bunch of references where he got his info and so can I. And, y'know, it really doesn't matter. The only time it does matter is if I say that, say, your Jean Cartier saxophone was made by Rampone (or something) and it's obviously a Dolnet. Black or white: I'm either wrong or right.

If I ever post a "complete" history of Malerne, I'll contact Mr. Ray and get his input, but considering they don't seem to have ever produced their own professional saxophones (clarinets, etc. are a different story), I'm not as interested in Malerne as other manufacturers.

Serial numbers, definitely :).

[Chris J]

These links of any interest?

http://www.horniman.ac.uk/pdf/BH_archive_detailed_handlist.pdf

http://www.horniman.ac.uk/pdf/bandh_handlists_web.pdf

Apologies if you have come across them already

Chris

[pete]

I'm going to have to play with those docs a bit, Chis. They're pretty interesting. Thanks for the post!

[SteveSklar]

Chris - i have those docs too. I got mine back in December from Ramon Wodkowski who was doing alot of research on B&H

[Chris J]

I came across them when I was researching the date for my Rudall Carte bass clarinet

Chris
http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z110/CJ010101/IMG_4898.jpg http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z110/CJ010101/IMG_4896.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z110/CJ010101/IMG_4867.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z110/CJ010101/rudall1935small.jpg

[SteveSklar]

wow. and available in Cocuswood too. Cocus became commerically extinct at one time. It was heavily used for woodwind instruments - clarinets, flutes, etc.

and what's with the bottom line.. "Cheaper Foreign made Clarinets can be supplied. Prices on application"
I wonder what that would have been? Italy, Germany, US ... Taiwan ? :)

[sideC]

Very interesting history here. That bass clarinet case is an eye opener. Cool stuff.

Julian

[Chris J]

...and available in Cocuswood too...

and what's with the bottom line.. "Cheaper Foreign made Clarinets can be supplied. Prices on application"
I wonder what that would have been? Italy, Germany, US ... Taiwan ? :)

I think the advert is later than my bass clarinet - but if the choice was Ebonite or cocuswood, I have wondered if mine is actually made of cocuswood. I believe it is meant to be lighter (by weight) than grenadilla, but wouldn't know how to differentiate it otherwise. My bass appears unstained.

As for the offer of cheaper foreign made clarinets - I am curious too now. I will post on the Clarinet BB and see what emerges

Chris

[Chris J]

I will post on the Clarinet BB and see what emerges

Chris

Looking like Italian, French, Czech - just maked as "Foreign"

Sorry for the temporary diversion away from serial numbers

Chris

[tictactux]

Looking like Italian, French, Czech - just maked as "Foreign"

When it's marked "Furrin" then it's from the US and relatively recent. :twisted:

Oops. There goes my political innocence. :oops:

[pete]

I spent a couple hours today upgrading the code of the serial number list to W3C HTML 4.01 Compliant (read: it should work properly in newer browsers). Additionally, I fixed the bit of JavaScript that was not allowing pop-ups in Chrome even if the pop-up blocker was turned off.

I have about a 1/2 dozen more serial number lists to add. Someday.

[Helen]

FWIW, I'm still having the problem in Chrome. Unless one of the other umteen programs on this new thing is causing the problem. I'll have to see if I can figure out where to find them.

[tictactux]

FWIW, I'm still having the problem in Chrome. Unless one of the other umteen programs on this new thing is causing the problem. I'll have to see if I can figure out where to find them.

Works fine in Iron (which is the Chrome engine without the "Google phone home" features)...unless I managed not to look at the same URL/page as you did.

[pete]

FWIW, I'm still having the problem in Chrome. Unless one of the other umteen programs on this new thing is causing the problem. I'll have to see if I can figure out where to find them.
What's happening is that Chrome -- and I'll have to check out Iron, TTT -- has a pop-up blocker on by default. If you go to the TOOLS menu (it's the thing that looks like a little wrench), click on the UNDER THE HOOD tab and click on the CONTENT SETTINGS button, there's a tab for POP-UPS.

All you have to do is click on the EXCEPTIONS button and allow my websites, http://thesax.info and 208.95.77.77. Save everything and restart Chrome.

Mind you, there are also lots of Chrome Extensions (plug-ins) that do pop-up blocking, too. I only have FlashBlock, AdBlock and IETab.

Of course, you could just use Internet Explorer: it'll just ask you if you want to allow the pop-up.

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The reason why I did the drop-down menu thing is because I could have one manufacturer that has a model page, a clarinet serial number chart, a flute serial number chart, an oboe serial number chart and something else (I've been toying with adding archive.org links, too), but you might have another manufacturer that just has a sax serial number chart. The drop-downs make things look an awful lot cleaner.

[pete]

It does look fairly slick. There are a couple "howevers":

a. I use Chrome Portable, because I don't like having to have two (or more) computers with different profiles, etc. Iron Portable is still in Pre-Beta (http://portableapps.com/node/22380). Admittedly, it seems stable, but I'd have to test for a longish while. I will, tho!

b. If you go to the Iron website (http://www.srware.net/en/software_srware_iron.php), they seem to have their own "list" of extensions for Iron (http://www.chrome-plugins.info/en/). I did install IETab from the Google Chrome website, and that seems to work, but I'd want to enthusiastically test it.

Now, Iron is using a newer version of the Chromium code than Google Chrome. It'll be interesting to see if that makes a difference. Considering it is a (slightly) different version, it makes me wonder how stable it is. However, as Helen would say, it's German software. A German pre-beta release is probably better than most peoples' gold release :).