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Help!!
- Thread starter kant
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The following is from a friend in Southern California who posts in various saxophone forums by the pen name, PigSquealer. He repairs and overhauls vintage saxophones and their cases.
I forwarded your photo to him with your concern. He messaged me the following advice:
Needs to go to clarinet specialist. It can be repaired, but not by DIY. [Do It Yourself]
For starters the wood is oily. Bonding a material on and reshaping will fail.
Secondly the grain direction and humidity are very important factors for longevity of the repair.
Depending on the make & model value it may be scrap. Tons of parts around. Find another body section.
Whether oboe or clarinet (it's a clarinet, correct?), the repair will be the same. He doesn't do this type of repair, suggesting seeking advice from someone such as Stephen Howard, a professional woodwind repairer in UK.
Good luck!
I forwarded your photo to him with your concern. He messaged me the following advice:
Needs to go to clarinet specialist. It can be repaired, but not by DIY. [Do It Yourself]
For starters the wood is oily. Bonding a material on and reshaping will fail.
Secondly the grain direction and humidity are very important factors for longevity of the repair.
Depending on the make & model value it may be scrap. Tons of parts around. Find another body section.
Whether oboe or clarinet (it's a clarinet, correct?), the repair will be the same. He doesn't do this type of repair, suggesting seeking advice from someone such as Stephen Howard, a professional woodwind repairer in UK.
Good luck!
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Tony Fairbridge
Tony F
It is possible to repair damaged tone hole chimneys, I've repaired several, including my own daily blow. I made a mold using a teflon rod the same diameter as the tone hole and built a form for the outside diameter as the chimney. I lined the form with teflon tape. I then carefully drilled holes in the damaged chimney wall and glued in music wire pins with epoxy to have something to key the repair on to. The pin length was such that it was less than the height of the repaired chimney. I then positioned the teflon rod and the sleeve for the outer chimney wall and then used wood dust and superglue to build up the chimney. When it was set I removed the rod and outside form and carefully levelled the chimney to the correct height. The repair on my horn has lasted about 9-10 years of hard use.
Muchas gracias por la información. Creo que mi compañero ya lo solucionó. Si me envía una foto, la subiré para que todos los que me ayudaron puedan ver los resultados. Gracias por todo.
R13s can be repaired.
The most common is a tonehole chimney replacement. Normally made from ebonite or wood.
The issue at hand though is that R13's tonehole bore is not cylindrical but it is hourglass shaped.
Replacing the tonehole (for a competent clarinet specialist tech) is the easy part. Reshaping the tonehole's bore to fit the way the instrument was designed is the harder part. I have a spreadsheet full of measurements of toneholes, etc which is useful for stuff like this.
but generally, when there is a tonehole replacement it is just cylindrical.
not a DIY thing especially for an R13. You can test your skills/technique on a junk clarinet before attempting on an R13.
The most common is a tonehole chimney replacement. Normally made from ebonite or wood.
The issue at hand though is that R13's tonehole bore is not cylindrical but it is hourglass shaped.
Replacing the tonehole (for a competent clarinet specialist tech) is the easy part. Reshaping the tonehole's bore to fit the way the instrument was designed is the harder part. I have a spreadsheet full of measurements of toneholes, etc which is useful for stuff like this.
but generally, when there is a tonehole replacement it is just cylindrical.
not a DIY thing especially for an R13. You can test your skills/technique on a junk clarinet before attempting on an R13.
@Steve , this is interesting, I would have never guessed, assuming all clarinet tone hole bores were cylindrical. I am just curious, but what would be the diameter dimensions for this particular broken tone hole?
I have chanced repairs on my personally owned instruments, but at this moment I own no listed as professional grade instruments (although some are close in tone and intonation.) Thus I lack the "fear factor".
My 1952ish Beaugnier Vito Model 37 low-Bb bari now has a separation of the bow brace from the body and a few new dents. This instrument plays like a professional bari, but was sold as a Le Blanc student level instrument. (Perhaps this is a best kept secret. 
)
I learned from a tech on the Café forum that they use silver solder instead of lead solder. Appears this joint has been lead soldered. Apparently it fell down in its gig bag by the hands of others when things in our spare bedroom were moved around a couple years ago.
I'll probably re-lead solder it as it requires a complete removal of the lead solder (which removes a touch of brass) as to not poison and compromise the silver soldering strength.
I have an entry level Weller MAPP Gas outfit that uses small disposable cylinders, but at this 4,300 ft. elevation its heat is barely enough for the lowest temperature silver solder rods. (A bit expensive as these bottles are only sufficient for one job.) I found out about rods that work when I replaced a brass water cut-off valve silver soldered to the inlet cold water pipe feeding a water heater. (Worked like a charm for this particular operation.)
)I learned from a tech on the Café forum that they use silver solder instead of lead solder. Appears this joint has been lead soldered. Apparently it fell down in its gig bag by the hands of others when things in our spare bedroom were moved around a couple years ago.
I'll probably re-lead solder it as it requires a complete removal of the lead solder (which removes a touch of brass) as to not poison and compromise the silver soldering strength.
I have an entry level Weller MAPP Gas outfit that uses small disposable cylinders, but at this 4,300 ft. elevation its heat is barely enough for the lowest temperature silver solder rods. (A bit expensive as these bottles are only sufficient for one job.) I found out about rods that work when I replaced a brass water cut-off valve silver soldered to the inlet cold water pipe feeding a water heater. (Worked like a charm for this particular operation.)
It varies dependent upon the generation of R13.@Steve , this is interesting, I would have never guessed, assuming all clarinet tone hole bores were cylindrical. I am just curious, but what would be the diameter dimensions for this particular broken tone hole?
I have chanced repairs on my personally owned instruments, but at this moment I own no listed as professional grade instruments (although some are close in tone and intonation.) Thus I lack the "fear factor".
My 1952ish Beaugnier Vito Model 37 low-Bb bari now has a separation of the bow brace from the body and a few new dents. This instrument plays like a professional bari, but was sold as a Le Blanc student level instrument. (Perhaps this is a best kept secret.
I learned from a tech on the Café forum that they use silver solder instead of lead solder. Appears this joint has been lead soldered. Apparently it fell down in its gig bag by the hands of others when things in our spare bedroom were moved around a couple years ago.
I'll probably re-lead solder it as it requires a complete removal of the lead solder (which removes a touch of brass) as to not poison and compromise the silver soldering strength.
I have an entry level Weller MAPP Gas outfit that uses small disposable cylinders, but at this 4,300 ft. elevation its heat is barely enough for the lowest temperature silver solder rods. (A bit expensive as these bottles are only sufficient for one job.) I found out about rods that work when I replaced a brass water cut-off valve silver soldered to the inlet cold water pipe feeding a water heater. (Worked like a charm for this particular operation.)
But replacing the tonehole you'll still have the entry bore and central bore frasing.
So you are just looking at the middle of the tonehole to the outer edge where the finger is
But looking at a 1955
5.20 mm (middle) / 5.65 mm (top of tonehole)
the wavy tenon era - 1995ish
4.45 mm / 4.8 mm
you'll have to measure the remaining parts of the tonehole for better dimensions related to that specific era of R13 (or any clarinet with varying toneholes bore.
For example of measuring toneholes
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I should add, This is the reason an R13 is a great training instrument at the college level.
the color and flexibility you have in controlling the tone is related to the tonehole (and bore, player, etc).
I originally tried to learn on a Leblanc LL - cylindrical bore, and cylindrical toneholes. You can do "stuff" but much, much more difficult. Adding an R13 was like an enlightenment.
This is why the R13, when it was released was a hit with professors.
But the R13 was not the first instrument with this.
The Buffet Master Bore models had varying hourglass tonehole bores, this would be from 1950 to 1955. I've had these. These are awesome instruments. Easily More dynamically flexible than an R13 with a deep dark tone, but with a fully tapered upper bore, not the polycylindrical bore.
the color and flexibility you have in controlling the tone is related to the tonehole (and bore, player, etc).
I originally tried to learn on a Leblanc LL - cylindrical bore, and cylindrical toneholes. You can do "stuff" but much, much more difficult. Adding an R13 was like an enlightenment.
This is why the R13, when it was released was a hit with professors.
But the R13 was not the first instrument with this.
The Buffet Master Bore models had varying hourglass tonehole bores, this would be from 1950 to 1955. I've had these. These are awesome instruments. Easily More dynamically flexible than an R13 with a deep dark tone, but with a fully tapered upper bore, not the polycylindrical bore.
Very interesting, @Steve , stuff I knew nothing about, and thanks for the vid explanations and their closer look.
I just pulled out my recently acquired Selmer 1400 resonite clarinet. By eyeballing it appears to have cylindrical bored holes. My Boosey & Hawkes Edgware Grenadilla woody S/N 988xx, open tone holes reveal an hour glass cut for example on the C hole upper body. Lower body, appears to have hour glass tapered open holes.
Without you mentioning it, I would have never noticed.
I just pulled out my recently acquired Selmer 1400 resonite clarinet. By eyeballing it appears to have cylindrical bored holes. My Boosey & Hawkes Edgware Grenadilla woody S/N 988xx, open tone holes reveal an hour glass cut for example on the C hole upper body. Lower body, appears to have hour glass tapered open holes.
Without you mentioning it, I would have never noticed.
By understanding the specific design of individual instruments, one can understand what they'll receive from the instrument from tonal characteristics, feedback to the player, to everything about it.
That is assuming the player is more advanced in their embouchure, etc.
Materials and it's tonal reflective surface, to me, and the design, make a difference too.
On of my friends had 3 saxes of differing materials. He also played on the darker side. The brighter one plays the less variance that is noticeable between instruments. But we did a blind test in which I was able to identify them even before playing all 3.
That is assuming the player is more advanced in their embouchure, etc.
Materials and it's tonal reflective surface, to me, and the design, make a difference too.
On of my friends had 3 saxes of differing materials. He also played on the darker side. The brighter one plays the less variance that is noticeable between instruments. But we did a blind test in which I was able to identify them even before playing all 3.
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