Tell me this isn't a Kohlert

Current company info, btb: http://www.mideal.cz/en/about_lidl. Brno is a city in Czechoslovakia.

Anyhow, why it's not a Kohlert:
* 4-digit s/n. All the Kohlert stencils I've seen carry the Kohlert serial numbers. That'd be your choice of an about a 1902 horn or a 1953 horn. Neither of those look like the Lidl.
* The Conn Artist-like ("naked lady") G#/C#/B/Bb cluster on that Lidl is considerably different from Kohlert's. Any model of Kohlert.

FWIW, there are Google mentions of both a "Master Prima" and a "Master Prima II." Actually, most folks flip the words. In any event, it just gets translated as "Great Master," in German, but I could have transliterated that from the Latin.

I'm working on a few sax-related projects, one of which is trying to make a visual "cue sheet" on which horns have what features, so I'm definitely not going to say, "This horn was made by X." At this point, all I can say is that it's a Lidl.
 
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Thanks Pete. Quite a few other things did look Kohlert - lh pinky for instance. But the keyguard mounts, rh pinky didn't really work, neither did the octave mech.

lol, Lidl is one of the cheapest supermarket chains over here... It's worse than having Wlamart on the sax.
 
Well, they're brasswind only, ATM. I don't know if that was "always" brasswind, tho. I have heard of them, but I never had an overwhelming desire to follow-up.

An interesting side discussion would be how it was determined that company X went to West Germany and which stayed in Czech or East Germany. Why were the Keilwerth brothers that lucky?
 
pete said:
An interesting side discussion would be how it was determined that company X went to West Germany and which stayed in Czech or East Germany. Why were the Keilwerth brothers that lucky?
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The CZ/Germany country boundary was drawn up based on pre WWII boundaries before Hitler's annexation of the Sudetenland (which includes Graslitz/Kraslice). The companies stayed where they were. And were nationalised and combined into larger, ultimately single entities. And the former owners were made to work there.... The Keilwerths & Kohlerts were able to get out, cos CZ expelled people of German/Austrian/Hungarian descent. There are some docs on the web (in German) about this, seems the Czechs were pretty ruthless. And they re-started from scratch, with a little help. Then came the fights with Amati over names. East Germany differed in that no-one was allowed to leave.
btw, it's not Czechoslovakia any more. Czechoslovakia was created from Austro-Hungaruian possessions in the aftermath of WWI, as the former Austro-Hungarian empire was dissolved by the victors. The country had two pretty incompatible population groups, Czechs and Slovaks. The Slovaks declared independance in mid '92 and this was resolved peacefully resulting in the formal split from Jan '93. So we nw have the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic.
 
kevgermany said:
btw, it's not Czechoslovakia any more. Czechoslovakia was created from Austro-Hungaruian possessions in the aftermath of WWI, as the former Austro-Hungarian empire was dissolved by the victors. The country had two pretty incompatible population groups, Czechs and Slovaks. The Slovaks declared independance in mid '92 and this was resolved peacefully resulting in the formal split from Jan '93. So we nw have the Czech Republic and the Slovak Republic.
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Yah, I know.

Y'all might have noticed that I use "Germanic" and/or "Czech" a lot. I do to try to avoid more confusion. If you look at early Julius Keilwerth or early Kohlert horns, they're labeled "Grazliz, CSR" or one of many variant spellings. All the Keilwerth brothers' horns after WWII are stamped "Germany." Making life even more difficult for the researcher is that some companies got combined into national collectives in East Germany and/or Czech. In the case of Lidl, according to Google Maps, they were 370 km away from Grazliz (Google Maps calls it "Kraslice").

'Course, the folks in he Czech and/or Slovak Republics could break down into smaller countries again, too, making more money for the mapmakers.
 
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