True Tone Alto

Dave Dolson

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
Several years ago, I bought a Buescher TT alto off of eBay - paid something like $300.00 for it. When it arrived, it was a mess, but had all the parts, no dents and it played. It is a [HASHTAG]#153XXX[/HASHTAG], probably '24 or so, with the button G# and no front F.

I had Rheuben Allen overhaul it and when I picked it up from him, he said it was one of the nicest TT's he'd seen. He cleaned it up, too, and the thing shined - nice matte silver body and neck, polished keywork and gorgeous gold-wash inside the bell.

He kept the snap-ins (which I just found out), although he floated the pads in shellac and punched a hole in each pad so the studs could be accessed. The resos were the original snap-ins.

I haven't played it since then and decided to dig it out a few weeks ago. It blew hard and I knew there were leaks. I took it to a local guy (Jim) at the Santa Clarita Nick Rail store and he spent a day with it. He showed me the snap-ins and how Rheuben had done the work. Frankly, I was surprised because of comments Rheuben made at the time about how difficult snap-ins were to do good overhauls. I didn't care either way, just surprised.

When I got it back from Jim, the thing sings. I've been playing it regularly now, trying to break in the action a bit (kinda stiff and tight, but I figure a lot of playing will do the trick - that approach worked on my TT soprano).

I played it this last weekend at my gig and again this morning. What a great horn. I think the scale is even better than my later Bueschers and Ref 54 altos - a nice focused sound, too. It looks good and plays good, and looks nice on the stand next to my matte-silver TT soprano. DAVE
 
Thanks for posting this Dave. I have a nearly closet True Tone alto I bought from someone on SOTW that I am going to repad with white roo pads. Your raving review has motivated me to get going on the project. I'm looking forward to hearing how it plays. The 400's I have worked on for customers have all been fantastic horns. If this alto is anything like those I may not resell it after all.

John
 
I've never been to those sites, Jim. But Helen contacted me by PM and offered to post them for me. I've sent her a six-photo e-mail (they proved to be small enough that I think her e-mail can handle 'em).

John, I have a Big B and a 400 TH&C, too. They didn't seem to weather the years as well as the TT, but they are excellent players. I think MY TT is the best of those three, but any one of them could be a horn-for-life. I'm fortunate to have a number of great altos. Picking one is difficult - so that's why I don't! DAVE
 
Weird, I posted a reply, but it seems to have vanished into cyberspace...

I posted the pics of Dave's very pretty horns. You can find them in the Album titled Dave Dolson's True Tones.
 
What I have always loved about Buescher altos (at least the best examples) is that they sing.

The horn looks great.
 
I have an old True Tone I picked up at a pawn shop for $100; it had lost the snap ins when somebody re-padded it with Selmer style resos, but I had it taken apart, cleaned & shined up, adjusted, leaks fixed......has the button G# key....plays good and sounds really good, matte silver. I don't play it regularly, but when I do I enjoy it.
 
AGaston said:
I have an old True Tone I picked up at a pawn shop for $100; it had lost the snap ins when somebody re-padded it with Selmer style resos, but I had it taken apart, cleaned & shined up, adjusted, leaks fixed......has the button G# key....plays good and sounds really good, matte silver. I don't play it regularly, but when I do I enjoy it.
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A good repad, even if the snaps are removed, is still a good repad. The snaps are for two things: to claim the horn is original as possible and to make it easier for you to change the pads.

One of the nicest sounding baris I've played was a gold-plated True Tone.
 
A local pro brought me a True tone alto from about 1929. It had the wrong neck, (but a True tone neck), NO octave key, and it needed an overhaul besides. I tried to talk the owner out of it, but he wanted the horn restored. I'm just finishing the work now. He was right.
 
I got the same sort of opinion when I had my Conn artist alto and my Buffet Albert system bass rebuilt.

"Sure, we can do it and make it as much like new as it can be. But will it be worth it?" (Cue The Six Million Dollar Man sound effect.)

Well, to some, perhaps not. To me, however, it was well worth the tariff in both cases. I grew up playing a Buffet bass very much like the one I own now, and the finger position, single little finger key options, and twin octave touchpiece mechanism are like second nature to me. Having such a horn back in "new" condition was well worth the $800 that it cost me.

The alto is a different story. There are plenty of wonderful altos out there, with many worthy Yamaha altos available for far less than the $700 that I sunk into Helen Willson (that's the name engraved on the bell, atop a portrait of a very "plain" 1920's flapper). But, with the Yamahas, you get a typical French-style sound. With a Conn...well, it's a completely difference sound - wide, full, broad, whatever you want to call it.

I've heard much the same about "The Buescher" as well. The main differences were a) I had the Conn fall into my lap for $25.00 (in poor condition), b) I didn't have a Buescher horn arrive under the same circumstances, and c) the Conn horn is truly spectacular in its final appearance (as well as tone). Sure, I have to play it with an age-appropriate mouthpiece, and sure, I have to put up with some funky fingering issues. But, in the balance, it's worth it.

I've played (briefly) several Buescher horns, and (in the final reckoning) they weren't worth the trouble. I had issues with the key locations and thumb rests, and with both of the types that I tested (baritones and a tenor), I wasn't in the need of that particular horn in either case. So, pace Buescher, at least as far as I am concerned.
 
Terry: Not too long ago, a fellow who comes to hear our band brought in a couple of vintage saxophones to show me . . . one a TrueTone tenor and a Conn New Wonder alto. What great instruments!! I wasn't able to play the tenor (no mouthpiece and more importantly, no tenor chops) but he played it for me and it had a wonderful sound.

I put my mouthpiece on the Conn alto and it was superb. He had the alto completely re-done including plating. Fabulous instrument. He wanted to sell it to me, but my problem was that I already had a brace of fabulous altos and didn't need another one.

But your comment that "of course I had to use an age-appropriate mouthpiece . . ." piqued my interest.

My old (1920's) King alto, Buescher alto, Cigar-Cutter alto ('32), two TT sopranos (and on and on) have never required me to use a vintage mouthpiece. In fact they play great with modern mouthpieces currently available at retailers everywhere. From my perspective the need for vintage instruments to use vintage mouthpieces is a myth; and if not myth, then certainly not the norm. No hard feelings, either - that's just a sensitive subject for me. DAVE
 
I've mentioned that every Conn I've played, excepting the 30M Connqueror tenor that went to Paul Lindemeyer, was junk. DO NOT WANT. (It also didn't matter what the pitch was.)

All that being said, I delve into this discussion a little more.

If I had a Conn New Wonder that was Virtuoso Deluxe finished (that's triple-gold-plate, additional pearl keytouches and a custom engraving) and needed it overhauled, I'd have to ask if it was worth it. If the overhaul was $1000 and the value of the horn after the overhaul was $500, but I could get a better, almost identical, horn in better shape for $600, why would I want the overhaul? I can understand sentimental value, on some level, but a saxophone is also a tool. You don't overpay for the same tool.

Let's bring the big boy into the mix, the Selmer Mark VI. Yes, it's a nice horn, but if I had one that was flattened by a steamroller and was I told that it'd be $5000 to repair, I think I'd go out and just look for another VI, at least, or try a different horn. Even if my VI was the best playing VI on the planet -- until it started playing a tad flat (sorry; obvious pun).

Dave Dolson said:
From my perspective the need for vintage instruments to use vintage mouthpieces is a myth; and if not myth, then certainly not the norm.
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I tend to think you're more an exception to the rule, Dave. It would be interesting to test the theory of whether it's easier to play a vintage horn with a vintage mouthpiece. I can say that, in my experience, it is (well, using my Rascher, which is a copy of a vintage Buescher). In your experience, it isn't. We could poll the audience for a non-scientific result ....

Until such time, we could amend the advice on vintage horns to, "Use a good mouthpiece and see if you can play all the notes and play 'em in tune. If you can, great. If not, we recommend an 'age-appropriate' or large-chamber mouthpiece."
 
Pete: I've been playing for over 50 years and over that time, have owned a lot of saxophones and clarinets. I've also had many vintage mouthpieces as well as modern ones.

I've tried many vintage pieces (I still have a few in my box) with soft reeds, medium reeds, and hard reeds, and rarely got a sound out of them. When I did, it was weak and difficult to control. When I put my modern mouthpieces on vintage horns they play great - solid scales, warm sound, response from bottom to top.

I don't think I'm any exception - what plays for me usually plays for those with whom I associate or correspond. Oh, there are the normal differences we all have with any mouthpiece - some like Selmer, some like Meyer, or whatever.

But almost all of the old mouldy fygges (hard-core traditionalists) I associate with use modern mouthpieces on their vintage saxophones and clarinets. And if there would be anyone inclined to stick with vintage, just because of the look, it would be my cohort in trad jazz.

I fully realize that the original jazzers used what was available at the time and they sounded great. I 'spose it is all one becomes accustomed to. But my problem is the assertion that to play a vintage horn correctly requires the player to use a vintage mouthpiece - and I just don't believe it. DAVE
 
Well, I liked the "Conn sound" the first time I tried one. I then went home and dug out the "junk horn" I had bought for use as a lamp some day (this because of the engraving alone), and had it fixed. Hasn't let me down yet, although...

...when I tried it out with my metal Berg Larsen mouthpiece. Try as I would, it would just not play on the mark. I pulled out a Selmer C*, popped it on, and - bingo - problem solved.

I've tried for years to find a Conn baritone from the same period (post-World War I), but all that I have encountered to date have both been junked and have been hard players in the bargain.

I'd not recommend what I did for most. I had the money as well as the motivation (my earlier trial on a "low end" Conn alto of the same general period) to make it happen. And, when I found out that my "junk" horn was one of the high end ones (gold plate, custom (if homely) engraving, and all of the bells and whistles), It sealed the deal. And, keep in mind, I'm also the guy who has an Albert system bass clarinet...
 
Terry, et al: I don't have a problem with the tone I hear when I play Conn saxophones. I've just not owned one where the scale was all that good - playable, but they required some work on my part, as opposed to old Bueschers, Kings and Selmers that seem to do much better for me with intonation. And, I don't think a vintage mouthpiece would be the answer to that, either, based on experiences too lengthy to discuss here. Briefly, the aforementioned Conn alto that a fan brought to my gig was a 1920's era saxophone and it played wonderfully when I put my Super Session F on it.

I found interesting Terry's comment about switching from a Berg-Larsen piece to a Selmer C* and that solved his problem. I don't know from what era that Selmer C* came, but I normally wouldn't consider a Selmer C* a vintage mouthpiece. I suppose it could have been a 1920's piece, I'm not up on Selmer's mouthpiece histories.

I do recognize that some horns sound better with different mouthpieces although I normally can take my mouthpiece-choice-of-the-day and play all of my saxophones of that size with pleasure. DAVE
 
I found interesting Terry's comment about switching from a Berg-Larsen piece to a Selmer C* and that solved his problem. I don't know from what era that Selmer C* came, but I normally wouldn't consider a Selmer C* a vintage mouthpiece. I suppose it could have been a 1920's piece, I'm not up on Selmer's mouthpiece histories.
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I made a conscious effort awhile back not to become a mouthpiece "guy". That way, I get more e-mails about horns than mouthpieces (and I tend to scare people off with the comment of, "Well, I rather like the Sigurd Rascher mouthpieces ...").

However, the Selmer C* has been around for a long time and in various configurations: C* is a facing.

See http://www.theowanne.com/mouthpieces101/Selmer.php

Then again, Berg Larsen has been around awhile, too. See http://www.theowanne.com/mouthpieces101/BergLarsen.php
 
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Pete: That is exactly why I commented that I didn't know from what era Terry's C* came. I know C* is a facing, but Terry wasn't specific as to whether the C* he used was vintage or modern (for example, the S-80 design or the Soloist series).

I have a scroll-shank Selmer soprano saxophone mouthpiece in C* (not marked Soloist, but most folks consider that piece to be a Soloist) that I bought new in 1957 or so. It differs in playability to my S-80 C*, although not by much. I don't consider the scroll-shank to be vintage, mostly because I can get a sound out of it!!

I think most posters think "modern" when someone writes "C*". If that is the case with Terry's C*, then his experience in switching from a Berg to a C* doesn't address the claim that vintage horns require vintage mouthpieces. More specifics would be helpful in this discussion. DAVE
 
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