A.E. Sax C-Pitched Tenor

Helen

Helen

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I just uploaded an album of the C=pitched tenor that my tech just finished restoring. The work was a labour of love.

I was the only 2nd person (my tech was the 1st) and first sax player to play this baby in well over 1/2 a century. It had been salvaged from a box. It was in pieces and was missing bits and parts (like the octave lever and entire mechanism), tone hole chimneys, and had a bent body tube. Fortunately its neck was still there, though slightly kinked. The kink was removed, but the neck was not sent out for re-plating.

I will be writing a full review of the horn for my website, and linking to it here when done in the next day or two. In the meantime, I thought I would share the pics of this odd duckling.

I can tell you all, this is NOT a C mel. I brought my Conn straight neck C mel along to compare/contrast. There was no comparison. The Sax horn sounded somewhere in between a tenor and an alto. It did not have the overtones that the Conn has (when using the same Runyon MP). It is its own thing. A unique, quirkie horn.
 
pete said:
That octave mech looks very Dolnet.

It's a very pretty horn. Did y'all decide whether it's nickel or silver plate?
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Interesting about the styling of the octave mechanism. David did a lot of researching to find pics of a horn. I forgot which dealer in the US had one. He ended up phoning and talking with them. It was the same octave mechanism that Selmer used on some of its early horns as well. (Forgot the model now, but shortly after they bought the Sax Co. from A.E.)

BTW, did you get the pics I sent you? I may have sent them to the wrong email for you.
 
I spent some time doing some research.

One of the horns I had labeled on my website isn't a Bb tenor, it's a C tenor -- hey, I never claimed to be able to read French. Only a few serial numbers difference, too. It's at the Cité de la Musique museum 'site. The first page is here and the second is here, after a restoration (nice-looking abalone "pearls"). There are a couple of sound samples, too: the solo from Bolero and an extract from Une Chanson Bleue. I'm actually happier with the Bolero solo, because I know the part reasonably well, thus I can fairly well tell how different it sounds.

Secondly, if you look at the ginormous picture of the horn on the Cité de la Musique website, you'll see that the G# is rather rectangular. It's obviously not exactly the same as the one on "your" C tenor, Helen, but it's not that far off. Here's a 15008 alto to compare. I also noted that the G# cluster changes considerably on later horns.

Regarding the octave key assembly, there were at least two automatic octave key designs after the double-keys went away. There's the "wishbone" style on "your" horn and this Eb alto and a much more modern one.

I'll wrap up by mentioning that I have another AE Sax C tenor on my website. I think it's slightly older than "your" horn, but it also looks like it has the "wishbone" octave mech. No pearls.

As always, if you want to take any of the above for your blog, please do. I only posted here because it's easier to post links.
 
Thanks for all this research Pete! Both the G# and octave key variations are interesting. Given that there seemingly are no serial # charts available for A.E. Sax horns--rather most horns seem to be listed built between 1907-1928--it makes it hard to figure out exactly which features would have been introduced when.

The design of the octave mechanism was chosen based on a serial # of an alto within a few #'s of this C tenor. Unfortunately that C tenor in the museum with the wishbone mechanism doesn't have serial #. My slightly educated guess would be that it would be older. But that really is only a guess.

I also wonder what the extra stamping on Eric's sax is all about.

Is this a flower or a star above the text? What do you think?
CH. RINKEL
STRASOURG

P1000025-serial.jpg


I haven't studied Sax horns nearly as much as you Pete, but I haven't come across it. Have you?
 
Maybe the shop it was imported into?
Here's what Horn-u-copia said on it:
Carl Rinkel
Strasbourg
France
-



Carl also known as Charles Rinkel (1904-1925 ) Successor to Burger, Succeeded by Vogelweth
Rinkel%20Ch%20Strasbourg%20P.jpg
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Time period seems right too.
 
Mmm... This is interesting. Going along with your thinking TrueTone... The Library of Congress has a poster from the company in their collection.

Since the Sax name and engraving is prominently displayed on the bell, like with the Pierret saxophones that bear the name C. Jeuffroy, this would not be a stencil sax in the true sense of the word. Interesting though, that unlike C. Jeuffroy, Ch. Rinkel & Cie. would appear to be a manufacturer. That being said, lots of manufacturers did not actually make all the horns, but outsourced this or that type to other companies. EG: JK did not make their own clarinets. Julius had his brother Richard make the clarinets that bore the JK label, and vice versa.

This was just preliminary searching on my part. If I did some more perhaps I might find something else as well... This is where my lack of French hinders me a tad.

OK... And I just found this.... Not sure what this is all about... What does a plantation have to do with saxophones? Again... Lack of French isn't helping me a great deal....

However, based on the brass instruments that I've found through my searches, it does appear that the flower? star? stamping is the Ch.Rinkel & Cie emblem that they put on their horns.

Ch. Rinkel Stamp

Ch. Rinkel Stamp

Bell engraving on a Ch. Rinkel, Strasbourg, rotary value tenor horn. Note the engraving. The...
 
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Helen said:
However, based on the brass instruments that I've found through my searches, it does appear that the flower? star?
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There have been a bunch of French manufacturers that had a star of some kind on their horns. This was used to my amusement when SML owners were trying to determine if six-pointed star horns were better than five-pointed. Anyhow, in this case, it's supposed to be a star inside a flower. It was on the horns made by Julius Burger, which was the forerunner of Rinkel. Reference linky. (And here's a direct link to a pic.) This linky says the guy's name might be spelled "Rinckel" on some instruments. No, nobody knows exactly what the star indicates.

FWIW, I did find a bunch of instruments from Rinkel online. Clarinets, piccolos, etc. Mostly brasswinds.

In any event, it's kinda obvious that the horn was made by AE Sax, rather than Rinkel. I would say that it's probable that either a) Rinkel didn't produce their own woodwinds, so they bought stencils or b) Rinkel didn't make saxophones, so they bought them from AE Sax

Helen said:
Unfortunately that C tenor in the museum with the wishbone mechanism doesn't have serial #.
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Au contraire. It's 14823. Look under the "Description" tab. In other words, not too far off your horn.

I do have to put together some sort of guide on AE Sax instruments. The first AE Sax horns looked basically identical to AJ Sax horns. The second "series" had the "square" keyguards and a double octave key. The third had the wishbone octave key and "square" keyguards. The fourth had the wishbone and funky keyguards that are on Helen's C. The fifth had a much simpler octave mechanism and the funky keyguards. The sixth looked different and were made by AE Sax for Selmer. The seventh looked a bit more like a Selmer Super Series. The eighth looked more so. All off the top of my head, though, so don't quote me :D.
 
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