Introduction and Questions

Philpy98

Hello everyone! I'm new to the forum and have a few questions regarding some things and would like to introduce myself.

First off, I'm a saxophonist, played for 5 years before taking a 2 year break due to braces and a few personal things. But, now I'm back with a vengeance and loving every second of playing again. So I was playing Alto before my break, and having my lessons and doing my exams (AMEB if anyone is familiar with the Australian system), but playing Bari for my school bands and bands outside of school. I sing Bass in choirs so just have a passion for bass music in ensembles, so the Bari fits well for me. So my school (I'm 16 and in 11th grade) has kindly lent me a Bari (YBS-32 if you're wondering) for the Jazz band and concert band. However I really want to go back to lessons and playing solo stuff again, and am extremely excited to play Tenor! Something about the timbre and the feel of the Tenor, and general "sexiness" it has over the Alto has just hooked me in. My question regards buying one.

So my repairman/dealer/friend/enthusiast has a couple of options for me, and the main ones that fit my price range come down to a new Yamaha 280 or a refurbished Yamaha 62. The 62 comes in at just over $2000 whereas the 280 is around $1350. I'm definitely thinking the 62 at that price, and he's pretty adamant that that's the one to get. Just making sure I'm not in the wrong direction here? I'm by no means a professional, but I'm definitely beyond the realms of "beginner." And from what I've read, the 62 is a fantastic horn that should last me many many years which is a big plus, because i'd like it to be my horn throughout university and beyond.

Keen to talk all things music and saxophone with anyone :)
PS. To Mods and admins, I wasn't really sure where to put this thread, so I hope it's not in the wrong section.
 
Moved to the Yamaha Sub-Forum

=========================================================

Hello Philpy98, and welcome to the Woodwind Forum (WF).

Although I am not a Yamaha player, without a doubt, I would say hands down, your better choice is always going to be a pro horn over a student model. The 280 is Yamaha's current crop of student model horns (unless the Australian model designations are different than they are in Canada), and the 62 was Yamaha's pro model. (The current crop is the Custom Z series.)

Now of course there a lot of possible factors that come into play here, such as: condition of both horns, price, ability to play-test, warranty, etc. That said, in this case you're saying that the 62 is refurbished, and that a repairman that you trust has a couple of options for you. In this particular case, it really does seem to be a no brainer, and I would say the 62 would win hand-down. Like I said at the top, you're always better off with a pro horn, and Yamaha is one of the best horns out there.

I always tell my students, and anyone writing to me for advice this: Buy the best horn you can for the money you have, and if you're buying a used horn, budget something for repairs. In this case it seems the repairs have been done in advance, so you're ahead of the game. If the price is fair for your local market, then you have nothing to lose if you like the feel of the horn, and like its sound.

I hope you'll find some useful info here Philpy98. Poke around the WF and feel free to post to some of the threads if one or the other is of interest to you. Since you're a sax player, you might also find my blog and website (links in my signature below) useful and/or interesting. They're both rather large. Enjoy...helen
 
Hi. I'm the resident Yamaha fanatic.

The YBS-32 is a really decent bari. I'm glad you've got one. I had a 52, which is mostly the same horn as the 32, just a different market.

The Yamaha 62 is Yamaha's non-custom pro horn. They've had several versions of the 62 and they're now at the YAS-62III. Each version has added better stuff, but the biggest change has been in the neck design. Newer does = better. I've got some comments, though:

* One of the reasons I didn't buy a Yamaha 62 bari over the 52 was because the 62 was definitely better, but not enough better to justify the about $1500 difference in price.
* One of the reasons I didn't buy a YAS-52 and YTS-52 over the 23s was because I played mainly bari and the student models were really good enough and not enough to justify the difference in price. In the groups I played in, I probably played bari 70% of the time, various clarinets 15% of the time, and alto and tenor sax 15% of the time. I saved enough cash, this way, to buy a decent Bb clarinet.
* The YTS-62 you're looking at is $1800-ish US. While that's a significant discount off of a YTS-62III ($3400 US), you can buy a YTS-61 for a lot less and a lot of folks prefer the 61 to the 62. If you want to do the eBay route, you could also check for other Yamahas in the "intermediate" range with the G2 neck, like the 575. You might get lucky and come across a YTS-82Z custom for cheap. (You might not be as fond of the 855 or 875 as the 82Z. They're much darker horns.)

I've also been doing an awful lot of research on Yanagisawa in the past few months and I'd recommend giving an T-880 or newer (990/990u/991/992) a try. They have a bit nicer of a feature-set than Yamahas. I'll also mention that there's this horn over at Saxquest.com. It's the only model sax I felt unworthy of playing. Completely different characteristics than the Yamahas, but expanding horizons is good. Just budget for repairs.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Thanks everyone for the replies! Quickly too address you Pete, I'm a firm believer in supporting local business, even if that means paying a premium, I believe the community I get from my local shop (Eg. I was in there the other day and met a Tuba player with 60+ years experience and he just was telling stories of his tours etc.) as well as the relationship with it's owner, is too good to pass up, so eBay is off the cards (not to mention my genuine distrust in the internet). However I'll certainly inquire about any Yanagisawa horns and the YTS-61 or 52.

I agree Helen, out of those two it seems as though the 62 certainly is the no-brainer, I was just checking in for some other opinions, such as Pete's :D Hopefully now I can go in with an idea of a few more saxophones I hadn't thought about (Yanagisawa)

He's also gonna let me test them without knowing which one is which first. So, if I can't tell the difference between each one, should I ask him which is which or just go with whichever one feels the best?

I'll check out your blog as well!
 
It's a very, very hard thing to be told that you've been handed $5000 saxophone when you've played the $500 one and like that one just as much, if not more. That's actually one of the challenges in trying to determine if plating makes a significant difference in tone quality: the repairman's just going to set up that gold plated horn better, so it's going to play better. (Well, most of the time. There are some gold plated horns that are junky.)

The differences between all the Yamahas are very incremental. You might find that the 280 "feels" about the same as the 32. However, the 280's also going to only be worth $700 or so in 5 years; it's a student horn. The 62 will probably hold on to about $1500 and it's an honest-to-goodness pro horn.

As a recommendation, you might want to take along someone who can just sit and listen to you play the horns, just so you can get someone to objectively say, "Hey. That one sounds nicer." Take along a couple mouthpieces. And a digital tuner. Spend some time.
 
hmmm, I can see that it's not going to be that easy, but I'll mention the fact that the 62 will retain most of it's value when compared to the 280 to mum, (we're going halves in it). I don't have any tenor mouthpieces, so I'll just have to use the stock ones. I'll definitely take my time, I'll set aside an hour or two. The 62 will be refurbished in 3 weeks, so I'll keep you updated on how I went/going. Another question I have is, how much of a difference do Reed, mouthpiece and ligature combinations on your overall tone? I understand the difference reeds and mouthpieces make, but i'm more curious to how a ligature affects the final sound of your horn?

Thanks for all the input it's EXTREMELY helpful <3
Much love
 
Philpy98 said:
hmmm, Another question I have is, how much of a difference do Reed, mouthpiece and ligature combinations on your overall tone? I understand the difference reeds and mouthpieces make, but i'm more curious to how a ligature affects the final sound of your horn?
Click to expand...

A great deal. I wrote an article about this for my website. I'd encourage you to read this. It will clear up a lot of your questions.

In short, our own, individual sound originates in our chest cavity, and then is further individualized and shaped as it travels out through the various bodily structures. As it enters the horn through the mouthpiece, then down the neck, and finally into the sax itself, at each stage the tone is shaped a bit more. (It is up to the player of course, to also learn how to shape it correctly.)

In order to change the tone/sound we have, we can make changes to our gear. However, keep in mind that more than 50% of the saxophone tone (more like 85%) comes from the player. For those last 15% that you can change through gear, the closer to the source of the tone--your chest cavity--the more effective the gear changes will be. So yes, reed, mouthpiece, and to some degree ligatures play a huge role in your sound.
 
I guess I should clarify that a bit further. Some mouthpieces don't work on some saxophones, while some reeds don't work on some mouthpieces. Sometimes a particular ligature can change the response of a reed. When those three come together brilliantly, fit your sax perfectly, and you're happy with your sound, then you've achieved your goal.

That said, since you don't have a mouthpiece yet, I'd suggest that you try a Yamaha 5C. The 4C might be too closed off for you, unless you use a hard reed.
 
I +1 Helen.

I don't know if a used 62 will have a mouthpiece in the case, but the stock mouthpiece that comes with a new 62 really isn't bad. If the seller's not throwing one in, you should definitely ask for one of the Yamaha 'pieces because they're really inexpensive; $30 or so. Or, of course, take the opportunity to try out some other mouthpieces. Good horn + junk mouthpiece can easily = bad sound and bad playing.
 
Helen said:
A great deal. I wrote an article about this for my website. I'd encourage you to read this. It will clear up a lot of your questions.

In short, our own, individual sound originates in our chest cavity, and then is further individualized and shaped as it travels out through the various bodily structures. As it enters the horn through the mouthpiece, then down the neck, and finally into the sax itself, at each stage the tone is shaped a bit more. (It is up to the player of course, to also learn how to shape it correctly.)

In order to change the tone/sound we have, we can make changes to our gear. However, keep in mind that more than 50% of the saxophone tone (more like 85%) comes from the player. For those last 15% that you can change through gear, the closer to the source of the tone--your chest cavity--the more effective the gear changes will be. So yes, reed, mouthpiece, and to some degree ligatures play a huge role in your sound.
Click to expand...

I read the article on your website Helen. It raised some interesting questions in my mind related to what I was taught about tone production and what I have learned studying saxophone acoustics. It prompted me to finally brake down and order "Developing a Personal Sound" to find out more about the role of the larynx and other things mentioned in your article. I am looking forward to having a discussion after I have had time to read and study Liebman's book.
 
I'll have to re-read the book then. ;) ... It's been a number of years since I read it, and at least 3 since I wrote that article.
 
Thanks everyone for your help! Crazy to think that your overall sound can come so much from you, and not just from your equipment. Really interesting stuff overall. Since the Sax itself is going to cost a good chunk of money, I'll probably stick with the stock mouthpiece for a while, or until I have enough money saved up for something better (if necessary). Only 2 weeks now, and I'm buzzing... One man can only solo on the Bari for a limited amount of time :') Learning songs by ear is a new challenge for me and I'm loving every bit of it!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom