That Soprano Sound

Dave Dolson

Distinguished Member
Distinguished Member
NOTE from Pete: this thread originally came from http://www.woodwindforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1158. As the topic shifted squarely (pus intended) onto the Soprano Sax Sound, I split the thread. Just so you know.

I played S-80's on soprano for years BEFORE the Super Session came out. After that, there was just no comparison for me. I have an alto S-80 C*, too, but it is way too closed for my tastes. Still, a Don Sinta piece I got from Ed (he said it was close to a C*) is a monster when I put a Fibracell SOFT (1 1/2) on it.

But not too long ago, the band I play with did a festival in Santa Rosa, CA and one of the players played bass and alto saxophone alongside me (on sop, alto, and clarinet). He used to play with us before he moved up there - and the leader loves a two-reed sound in a trad band.

Anyway, the guy had a funky vintage alto and an S-80 C* alto piece. He sounded terrific. I'm not sure that a blanket disapproval works when assessing mouthpieces. DAVE
 
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Re: S-80 Mouthpieces, is it just me...

I like an S-80 C* on sop very much. On tenor it was The Dead Zone, scared me off so bad I have yet to go there on alto.
 
Soprano is the one horn that I keep switching up pieces on. I generally play a Selmer S80 D or a vintage C** metal. I made a custom piece for myself at one point from a vintage unfinished Buescher blank but it doesn't agree with my R&C as I just can't push it in far enough to get it in tune.

The S80 is closer to what I want than anything else I have on hand. I just wish it was a little less oboeish.
 
Ed: Have you tried shortening the shank on that mouthpiece?

I have a few favorite soprano pieces that wouldn't shove on far enough on my Buescher TT's (the rib for the upper-octave vent stopped the piece from going further). So, I had my S-80 G and J shortened, and later when I got my Morgan Vintage pieces (#6 and 7) I had them cut off, too. Now, they are about the same length as my Super Sessions and they tune up perfectly on the old horns.

I suppose that if the neck is bottoming out inside the barrel, you've got a problem. DAVE
 
I did shorten the shank on the vintage piece. I can't go much shorter with it. The sound is good but the chamber is a little too large for the R&C. It occurred to me that I should fill the sidewalls with silly putty and see if the piece plays better in tune. I'll probably try that tonight. If I like it then I'll have an idea of a good baffle profile.
 
I was wondering how long it would take before someone would use the word "oboe" in combination with the S80 in relation to the soprano.

When I got my late-model, Mark VI soprano around 1980, it came with "one of those". I played it faithfully, because that's what my teachers and profs told me to do. I hated the sound, because, well, it sounded too much like an oboe for my liking. I stopped playing soprano for many years, and when I did start again a number of years ago, I found what I was looking for in my current set up. No more oboe-like sound for me! (But then I've always been somewhat of a non-conformist ;-) .)
 
I don't think an "oboeish" sound is the mouthpiece alone. I have used many soprano mouthpieces over the years (Lakey 5* and 7*, Beechler 6, Guardala, Soloist C*; S-80 C*, D, E, F, G, and J, Runyons; Jody Jazz; STM Links, Super Session I and J; Morgan Vintage 6 and 7, to name a few) on many different sopranos (I own seven at this time, vintage and modern) and never had an "oboeish" sound.

I think it is the player more than the mouthpiece. DAVE
 
Sure Dave just knock out all of my hope! :emoji_smile:

I do think that all of us gravitate towards a natural sound. That's one of the reasons that Stan Getz always sounds like Stan Getz through the years. In spite of horn changes and different mouthpieces he still sounds like Getz. Of course, first you have to have an idea about what you want to sound like.
 
Ed: I agree. I started soprano listening to George Probert of the Firehouse Five plus Two, and Joe Darensbourg, who played with Louis Armstrong and Teddy Buckner; both guys on soprano (well, Darensbourg played mostly clarinet, but had a wonderful soprano tone).

Not too long after that, I discovered Sidney Bechet. Not an "oboe" among those players.

So, no matter what I used, my sound emulated those guys more than oboeish players.

Same with clarinet - my heroes were Bechet, Johnny Dodds, and Jimmy Noone. So, my clarinet sound is more like them than the Goodman/Shaw/Pete Fountain sound. DAVE
 
Well, maybe we should split this into another thread: what a soprano should sound like.

The problem I have with most soprano playing -- for example, the playing on the otherwise exceptional "Pearls" from Cowboy Bebop (the video I've linked to is from a different anime) -- is that a lot of soprano players tend to try to purposely "bend" their tone as they go higher. There's no reason to do that. John Coltrane more-or-less does this, too (My Favorite Things), but he has other issues with the soprano, as well ....

Another thing that soprano players tend to do is think the horn should sound "like" an oboe or whatever. That's still wrong, too. It's supposed to sound like a soprano sax.

I've actually mentioned this before: I heartily admire the playing of Jay Easton on So Low, but the thing is that it sounds like he's playing a single saxophone with an incredible range, rather than several different horns. There's no tonal variation. That tonal variation is what I'm looking for and why I really, really like to hear Paul Cohen on Conn-O-Sax but am non-committal about Rob Verdi playing the same horn on Prose and Connversations. Dr. Cohen plays the horn like it's a unique orchestral instrument. Mr. Verdi plays it like it's an Eb alto that's oddly shaped.

Mind you: even though I'm saying playing in this manner is "wrong", it's my opinion. There's no way I could touch any of these players' technical ability. There are probably people out there that will say that all saxophones should have the same tonal quality, slowed down or sped up, depending on pitch, and to vary from it is a mistake.

Now, I spent years, when I was younger, trying to learn to play Bach cello suites on my bari. My goal was to develop a cello-like sound. That required listening to cellists (Yo-Yo Ma and Pablo Casals) and trying to emulate that sound. It's in the embochure and face.
 
I'm not suggesting that the mouthpiece alone is responsible for producing the sound emanating from any horn. We know that 2 players playing exactly the same horn with exactly the same set up will sound different because the majority of the tone comes from the player, not the gear.

The S80 C* for soprano did in my case, have a rather double reed-like sound. No doubt about it. This held true no matter what brand or strength of reeds I played. YMMV however, and probably will....

When I picked up the soprano again, I play tested many mouthpieces before I found something that I actually liked the sound of. For me it was the Runyon Custom (with the spoiler in certain applications). Because I don't play soprano enough to keep my chops up as well as I do for tenor, I needed a piece that I could use on both my straight and curved horns. The Runyon fit the bill.

The other mouthpieces that I really liked & bought are a couple old stock HR Bergs (circa 1970s). I picked them up 5 or so years ago at a music store that was clearing out its old inventory. They are both really nice pieces. They work well with my Mark VI, but don't at all with the my vintage curvy. I was out of town on a trip and bought both of these pieces for $10 each, so it wasn't much of a risk! Too bad about them not working on the curvy though, I do prefer the sound of the Berg over the Runyon.
 
Helen: Agree. Your mileage will most likely vary from what others experience with the same horn and set-up. DAVE
 
All I was saying is that sounding like an oboe shouldn't be perceived as a bad thing.

I am a big fan of the timbre of an oboe.

I am quite happy about my sound on the soprano; I am just saying it would be interesting if I achieved an oboe like sound.

I love the saxophone and hope to create a distinct voice that very much embodies the sound of a saxophone as well.
 
TheHearing said:
We should exchange sounds for a week and see where it takes us!
Click to expand...

I suspect that my annoyance with the soprano led me to bari. :emoji_smile:

Like Dave I just love the playing and the tone of Sidney. It doesn't get any better than that. Of guys who are still alive today I really like Wayne Shorter's tone.
 
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