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rolled tone holes, micro tuners and naked lady engravings by Conn?
- Thread starter jossax
- Start date
It looks like no further comment about the FXH contrabass is coming anymore?
I'd like to respond on some of the above replys now, wherein pre-WWII german brands are clearly being generalized:
And compared with post-WWII mass production instruments who were built during the communist regimes:
To me this is a by the book example in how to keep all these individual ''Musikwinkel'' brands ( who definitely should be treated as individuals, instead of being generalized ) underestimated. First you tell they're actually all Conn copys, secondarily you tell their features, like RTH, microtuners, full pearl and elaborate engraving doesn't matter much, thirdly you tell you famously dislike all Conn saxophones. And as icing on the cake you state the MK VI's superiority again, in other words: why bother anyway?
Several of these forgotten brands made ''state of the art'' saxophones who easily can compete with all the major pre-WWII brands, but unknown usually means unloved which in this case is comepletely unjustified!!!
I'd like to respond on some of the above replys now, wherein pre-WWII german brands are clearly being generalized:
And compared with post-WWII mass production instruments who were built during the communist regimes:
To me this is a by the book example in how to keep all these individual ''Musikwinkel'' brands ( who definitely should be treated as individuals, instead of being generalized ) underestimated. First you tell they're actually all Conn copys, secondarily you tell their features, like RTH, microtuners, full pearl and elaborate engraving doesn't matter much, thirdly you tell you famously dislike all Conn saxophones. And as icing on the cake you state the MK VI's superiority again, in other words: why bother anyway?
Several of these forgotten brands made ''state of the art'' saxophones who easily can compete with all the major pre-WWII brands, but unknown usually means unloved which in this case is comepletely unjustified!!!
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Woah, dude. Chill.
First, you can see, above that I thanked you for your post on the contrabass. I'm not quite sure what else you'd like from me.
Second, rules-of-thumb are ... rules-of-thumb. You're right. They are generalizations. They're supposed to be. In this case the rule-of-thumb really does work: you want to know how much your Germanic horn nobody's ever heard of is worth? Find a Conn from about the same year and there you go. FX Huller's not exactly a household name, even on eBay.de.
Third, I played at least a half-dozen Conn New Wonders, from soprano to bass, and hated them all. I even owned a horn that was refurbished by a really decent repairman for, at the time, an awful lot of cash. Therefore, it was pretty easy for me to draw the conclusion Conn New Wonders = bad. Hey, if all the horns you've played from a particular company were terrible, would you be looking forward to trying more horns from them? I wasn't. I merely stumbled into the 30M I tried, which changed my opinion about Conn drastically. However, I'm still going to say that I'd rather have a Yamaha 23 than a New Wonder. Unless I can get one in the Virtuoso Deluxe finish in perfect shape and I can sell it.
Fourth, I still fail to see how the inclusion of RTH, microtuners, etc. automatically equal a great horn. I gave you a very easy example of a sax that has all those features that's not considered a great horn. Hey, as you point out, a Mark VI doesn't have any of those features -- and you can get some without much engraving, too -- and they're considered one of the best makes, ever. Do I care about Mark VIs, though? Nope. I played baritone. The Super (Balanced) Action is supposed to be a better Selmer baritone. I've also never played some of the other great horns out there, like the various Yanagisawa Silver Sonic models. And, and I've mentioned this elsewhere, I've played a bunch of Mark VIs and lots of other makes and models. That 30M I tried was the only horn I felt unworthy of playing.
Fifth, "unknown" = "unknown." "Unloved" is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, it's very possible that the name "FX Huller" is on the lips of everyone that walks down the street in Germany and the Czech Republic. I tend to doubt it, though. They're not sold very often, any place, and it's been insanely hard for me to find any pics of any kind of FX Huller, which is why I'm insanely happy to see the website you made. I also think the Super DES horn you have is one of the prettiest horns I've ever seen -- however, I've seen lots of pretty horns and that doesn't automatically mean they're great. Hey, I'm very fond of how the Hammerschmidt horns look (both Klingson and Klingsor) and so are other folks, but Helen can tell you about the various neck and intonation problems with those horns.
Finally, if you want to compare "superiority" of one horn over another from the same era, you're going to have a lot of folks disagree with you. However, you can compare features. A 1922 Buffet Apogee System horn has a lot more features than a 1922 Selmer Modele 22 Series. The only reason I'd want the Modele 22 over that Yamaha 23 I mentioned is because I could sell it and buy one or more really good horns. And the Yamaha's still a better player and has a keyed range from low Bb to altissimo F or F#.
First, you can see, above that I thanked you for your post on the contrabass. I'm not quite sure what else you'd like from me.
Second, rules-of-thumb are ... rules-of-thumb. You're right. They are generalizations. They're supposed to be. In this case the rule-of-thumb really does work: you want to know how much your Germanic horn nobody's ever heard of is worth? Find a Conn from about the same year and there you go. FX Huller's not exactly a household name, even on eBay.de.
Third, I played at least a half-dozen Conn New Wonders, from soprano to bass, and hated them all. I even owned a horn that was refurbished by a really decent repairman for, at the time, an awful lot of cash. Therefore, it was pretty easy for me to draw the conclusion Conn New Wonders = bad. Hey, if all the horns you've played from a particular company were terrible, would you be looking forward to trying more horns from them? I wasn't. I merely stumbled into the 30M I tried, which changed my opinion about Conn drastically. However, I'm still going to say that I'd rather have a Yamaha 23 than a New Wonder. Unless I can get one in the Virtuoso Deluxe finish in perfect shape and I can sell it.
Fourth, I still fail to see how the inclusion of RTH, microtuners, etc. automatically equal a great horn. I gave you a very easy example of a sax that has all those features that's not considered a great horn. Hey, as you point out, a Mark VI doesn't have any of those features -- and you can get some without much engraving, too -- and they're considered one of the best makes, ever. Do I care about Mark VIs, though? Nope. I played baritone. The Super (Balanced) Action is supposed to be a better Selmer baritone. I've also never played some of the other great horns out there, like the various Yanagisawa Silver Sonic models. And, and I've mentioned this elsewhere, I've played a bunch of Mark VIs and lots of other makes and models. That 30M I tried was the only horn I felt unworthy of playing.
Fifth, "unknown" = "unknown." "Unloved" is in the eye of the beholder. Yes, it's very possible that the name "FX Huller" is on the lips of everyone that walks down the street in Germany and the Czech Republic. I tend to doubt it, though. They're not sold very often, any place, and it's been insanely hard for me to find any pics of any kind of FX Huller, which is why I'm insanely happy to see the website you made. I also think the Super DES horn you have is one of the prettiest horns I've ever seen -- however, I've seen lots of pretty horns and that doesn't automatically mean they're great. Hey, I'm very fond of how the Hammerschmidt horns look (both Klingson and Klingsor) and so are other folks, but Helen can tell you about the various neck and intonation problems with those horns.
Finally, if you want to compare "superiority" of one horn over another from the same era, you're going to have a lot of folks disagree with you. However, you can compare features. A 1922 Buffet Apogee System horn has a lot more features than a 1922 Selmer Modele 22 Series. The only reason I'd want the Modele 22 over that Yamaha 23 I mentioned is because I could sell it and buy one or more really good horns. And the Yamaha's still a better player and has a keyed range from low Bb to altissimo F or F#.
Iâm chil,
Donât mind the contrabass pics or thanking each other, itâs not about thatâ¦â¦..
This is the whole point, Iâm not talking value wise, I never did!
Itâs about at least a dozen german brands that are being generalized ( certainly not only by you ) just because, visually, some of them look Like Conn!
I owned a Conn alto once, a transitianol model with 6M features, but I liked my modern horns way better. Tried several other vintage horns too but always returned to my 9930, Custom Z, R1 jazzâ¦â¦I guessed vintage was not for me?
Untill FXH came onmy way. I was amazed by itâs superb intonation, good ergonomics and flexible sound because for a while I was pretty much convinced those three qualitys were hard to find in a pre-WWII saxophone.
Ever since I try to bring this brand to the attention of other saxophone players.
Well, if you care a little for the technicall aspects of a horn you may find RTH, microtuners great features. Appearance ( pearls, engraving ) does matter, the eye wants something too.
Despite the MK VI reputation, ( I owned two of them ) I really started to dislike these horns because they stand in the way of so many great nowadays saxophone developments who are put to the sword in advance by the MK VI purists.
Selmerâs biggest competitor is their own MK VI. Iâve been told government grant is keeping them alive.
Yep, youâre right! Like most Musikwinkel brands, FXH is a collectors horn, which is a damn shame because they should be played instead of lying in a closet!
Make no mistake, I highly appreciate your website too, Helenâs Bassic sax and off course all the work of both german authors, Uwe Ladwig and Günter Dullat. The last one is a true pioneer due to his research which started somewhere in the 1960âs!
I owned a Klingsor tenor and still own several Klingsons ( FXH stencils ) no intonation issues here.
I realize that, I would have to face the purists then, who will not stand any competition in the establishment. I like those special features, recently I visited a saxophone exhibition in Markneukirchen where i saw a stunning FXH split bell key alto, keyed from low A to high G!
Internet values, often determined by hypes are usually comepletly out of proportian and wonât tell you much about a hornâs quality.
Donât mind the contrabass pics or thanking each other, itâs not about thatâ¦â¦..
This is the whole point, Iâm not talking value wise, I never did!
Itâs about at least a dozen german brands that are being generalized ( certainly not only by you ) just because, visually, some of them look Like Conn!
I owned a Conn alto once, a transitianol model with 6M features, but I liked my modern horns way better. Tried several other vintage horns too but always returned to my 9930, Custom Z, R1 jazzâ¦â¦I guessed vintage was not for me?
Untill FXH came onmy way. I was amazed by itâs superb intonation, good ergonomics and flexible sound because for a while I was pretty much convinced those three qualitys were hard to find in a pre-WWII saxophone.
Ever since I try to bring this brand to the attention of other saxophone players.
Well, if you care a little for the technicall aspects of a horn you may find RTH, microtuners great features. Appearance ( pearls, engraving ) does matter, the eye wants something too.
Despite the MK VI reputation, ( I owned two of them ) I really started to dislike these horns because they stand in the way of so many great nowadays saxophone developments who are put to the sword in advance by the MK VI purists.
Selmerâs biggest competitor is their own MK VI. Iâve been told government grant is keeping them alive.
Yep, youâre right! Like most Musikwinkel brands, FXH is a collectors horn, which is a damn shame because they should be played instead of lying in a closet!
Make no mistake, I highly appreciate your website too, Helenâs Bassic sax and off course all the work of both german authors, Uwe Ladwig and Günter Dullat. The last one is a true pioneer due to his research which started somewhere in the 1960âs!
I owned a Klingsor tenor and still own several Klingsons ( FXH stencils ) no intonation issues here.
I realize that, I would have to face the purists then, who will not stand any competition in the establishment. I like those special features, recently I visited a saxophone exhibition in Markneukirchen where i saw a stunning FXH split bell key alto, keyed from low A to high G!
Internet values, often determined by hypes are usually comepletly out of proportian and wonât tell you much about a hornâs quality.
TrueTone
College Student who likes wind instruments & music
I can't say this is any more accurate.
If value was the deciding factor for quality, I can say my username definitely wouldn't be TrueTone right now. (not to say things like Yanis, for instance, aren't good, I've liked all the Yanagisawas I've gotten to play, but I can't really afford any other than the stenciled Sop I already have.)