Where are they now?

SOTSDO

Old King Log
Staff member
CE/Moderator
I've aired out this particular issue before elsewhere, but it probably deserves repeating here for some new eyes and ears:

Where did all the bass saxophones go, and what did you do with them?

Back in the good old days, there were a lot of bass saxes made, for the most part by the minions of Colonel Conn. Sure, there were a lot more alto and tenors, but the horns were there in the day, and they were large objects that were not capable of being lost through a crack in the floor or behind the bleachers.

And, then...well, mostly they just went away. "As scarce as hen's teeth" is appropriate these days, and their presence (or lack of same) over the past half century or so has occasionally been a cause for comment.

Look, I know that tastes change. The day of a tuba or a banjo in a "big band' is long gone, and saxophone quintets aren't very common. So, not seeing them in performance situations is understandable. But, I'm not talking about that at all.

Just where have they all gone? For those who are relatively young and lead a sheltered life, a bass saxophone isn't easy to ignore. The term "coffin" can literally be applied to a bass saxophone case. Yet, there are so few out there to be found.

For many years, I played in a variety of musical situations at Washington University in St. Louis MO. That was a school had both money and some eclectic tastes. Their instrument room was an interesting place. Things like an F alto sax, a Heckel contra-bassoon (one made back in the days when they actually looked like a bassoon), a pair of basset horns (even though one was missing a neck), and just about every form of brass instrument known to mankind.

But, one thing that I never found was a bass saxophone. And this at a school which never met a helicorn that it didn't like. Why?

I put out and out theft out of the picture. It's hard to spirit one off with anything short of a pickup truck, to begin with. And, I give college students a bit more credit for honesty than that.

And, although some of them smell like they have just died, we know that they are not alive and that they didn't walk off of their own accord.

So, the question remains, where did they all go?

To start with, some will claim that there weren't that many of them in the first place. To this, I say "Bosh!" And, I offer up some "proof", as good as anything else that can be offered.

My parents, between them, attended three Saint Louis (MO) public high schools between them during the mid-1930's. While Dad's family didn't go for such frivolity as yearbooks (or, as my aged mother still calls them, "annuals") Mother's bought them all.

In all three school's annuals, there is the inconvenient truth of a bass saxophone (along with a goodly number of metal clarinets), proudly displayed in the back rows of the formal portraits. Three basses (and two of them are unmistakably different horns, due to dent patterns and the like) in three different high schools.

The three schools in question (all but one of which have long been shuttered) were about one-seventh of the total high schools in metro Saint Louis at the time. And, one of them was known as being a school that was "poor" compared to the other two - something borne out by the larger proportion of metal clarinets that show up in the portrait.

So, let's run the numbers here. Let's say that one-third of the urban high schools passed out the dosh sufficient to pick up a bass saxophone. In very round figures, that would indicate that there were at least a thousand or so such instruments in high schools at one point or another. Take that figure and double it to account for "professional" use horns. Whether you go this route, or attempt to tally things up through serial numbers and the like, assuming a bass saxophone universe of something like two thousand here in the US is not all that unreasonable.

So, where did they all go? In those three schools in Saint Louis (all of which were open during the days of my youth), they were no longer there. Nor were they in any of the other schools at which I had access to the horns.

So, where did they all go? World War II scrap drives are my pet theory. The parts weren't being written for them any longer, they were just sitting there taking up space, and they were mostly made of copper alloy, and - presto! - 75 mm shell casings.

But, it's only a theory. It would be nice to back it up with both realistic production figures and a realistic understanding of where they all went.
 
I also believe they were "shipped to Europe and the south pacific". People of that period seem to have placed a good deal of importance on having new items and not old junk cluttering up their lives. If you dig, I'm sure you can find, in your immediate family, stories of how items which would now be very valuable were "modernized" so as to be in keeping with the times. I busted my own mother for spray painting a beautiful lamp, and my inlaws have pictures of an improved bedroom set - improved by granny with a saw. Both would be expensive antiques now, but were just old junk then - and now they are junk forever.
 
The last bass sax that I attempted to buy was salvaged from a Chicago public school. It was in really rough shape. I suspect that this is the case with a lot of those horns. Up in the attic or wherever old school horns go to die.
 
I've try to buy some scrap bass saxes but the people who had them couldn't decide whether they might be worth more than I was asking. So they remain in the junk room/garage/barn with other stuff that the owner can't make up their minds about. Reminds me that I was going to check on the last one I made an offer on this Spring.

I also think Terry might have something about vintage horns going overseas. One of my friends is a major musical instrument seller on eBay and he says that a surprising number of vintage instruments get sold to overseas bidders. Asia is his biggest market for vintage saxophones.

Finally, I've read from a number of musician's that a bari sax can handle most of the parts a bass might be called upon to do. And it doesn't take three men and a boy to ship a bass to a far-away gig. So methinks there wasn't the demand for them and that forced most companies to make the not-so-hard decision not to make/carry them.
 
A few years ago, I happened to watch a marching saxophone ensemble. It was probably a 50-60 piece band playing every pitch of sax. There were in fact 10 bass saxes bringing up the rear. So uh...those guys have em?

Come to think of it, that's the only time I've ever seen a bass sax in use in person.
 
viewtopic.php?f=167&t=154 has a listing of some of the companies that made bass saxophones.

Today, the companies that build them are (in no particular order):

* Selmer
* Eppelsheim
* International Woodwind (IW)
* Lopes (Brazil -- they make the low G bass)
* Keilwerth
* Orsi
* Songlin (and probably a few other Chinese concerns)

... However, this doesn't address what happened to older horns.

Opinion: there weren't many. And the ones that were around got so badly damaged, they were just tossed, primarily for the reason that the bass sax just isn't written for.

Yes, havening them sold as scrap for the war effort is possible, but why weren't other instruments scrapped, too? There are lotsa brasses that aren't in common use (as Terry mentioned) and his school didn't toss those. Hey, I went to a school that had one of those four-bell monstrosities brasswinds that I've NEVER seen anyone play (I think those were invented by A. Sax, too).

Same with the contrabass sax. While there were at least three companies that made them (Evette-Schaeffer, WA Stowasser, and Kohlert), they were expensive and not many were produced -- and I've never seen one just lying off in a corner, like the Conn bass I used was.
 
One possible "bass sax sink" (in electronics terms) may be the various mummers organizations in the Philadelphia area. Their marching activities seem to desire - nay, require - the bass saxophone to be successful. We have them come down here to Galveston during the Mardi Gras "celebration", although I've never bothered to attend, as I am not partial to the smells of vomit and urine.

And, the only sending of bass saxophones overseas into foreign hands that I was thinking of was in the form of driving bands on 105 mm shells. In any event, shipping around the very volume intensive instruments (low bulk, high volume) intact would have violated War Shipping Board guidelines. Those were desperate times...

My favorite bass saxophone photograph is the one deep in the bowels of the Soldier's and Sailor's Monument, smack in the center of downtown Indianapolis. They have a photograph of the saxophone quintet belonging to the 36th Infantry Division, taken during the unit's deployment to Europe during World War I. The five doughboys are shown, standing in a line in what looks like No Man's Land but was probably really a training area somewhere in France. Each is carrying their horn at "high port", and wearing full field gear (including a prominently displayed gas mask. I've tried to purchase a copy, but cannot get them to pry one loose.
 
Well...A 1922 Buescher is sitting in my studio in British Columbia.

It orignally was owned by the University of Oklahoma (at least according to the stencil on the outside of the original case) and then somehow ended up in a junior high school in Bunkie, Louisiana. There it had been sitting on the top shelf in an storeroom for at least 3 decades. Paul Coats and Wayne Shell of the Bayou Sax Ensemble, bought the instrument when the school board decided to put it up for sale. Paul, with the help of Steve Goodson, painstakingly restored it to its former glory. I then bought it from Paul in 2000.

I know of a bass in someone's basment in Sedro Wooly (sp?) Washington. So I think many of them are still out there. Like someone already said, many have most likely been forgotten in the attics, basements, storage rooms, garages of America.

The Internet has changed many things over the past number of years...One of which is access and visibility of previously unavailable items...As these old warriors are discovered during renovations or estate cleanups, they make it out onto sites like eBay where suddenly that "crusty old hulk" suddenly fetches thousands of dollars.

Sure, many will have been lost to scrap metal and landfills, but I suspect that most are still out there waiting to be found so that they might take their rightful place in the music world, and fulfill their mission in my signature. :emoji_smile:
 
That's by one of our fellow community members - Randy Emerick as known as groovekiller.
 
Ed Svoboda said:
That's by one of our fellow community members - Randy Emerick as known as groovekiller.
Right on, it was after I posted this I checked newbie area and saw his post.
Great playing. :D
 
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