Collecting the Saxophone
- Thread starter pete
- Start date
Arg. I've been trying to quit.
The main reason I remembered about the "Typewriter" was because I'm putting together a photo gallery of all the Martin models.
The horn isn't absolutely horrid to play -- I had one, for a brief time -- but it does feel quite odd and not fantastically comfortable. Interestingly, though, there was at least one other company that did the same thing. Helen showed me a pic awhile back.
In any event, the "Typewriter" was definitely kewl to look at.
The horn isn't absolutely horrid to play -- I had one, for a brief time -- but it does feel quite odd and not fantastically comfortable. Interestingly, though, there was at least one other company that did the same thing. Helen showed me a pic awhile back.
In any event, the "Typewriter" was definitely kewl to look at.
No problem Randy. I have it in a "somewhat" dormant computer in my office. I'll fire it up later today, and see where I filed it. It's been a while since I worked on the Eppelsheim stuff.
That horn was a F.X. Hüller World model. What was extra-specially strange about it--as if the key work wasn't ;-)--was the engraving on the bell. It would be interesting to know who did the typewriter-style keys first: Martin or F.X. Hüller. I would have to do some re-reading of Hüller's production dates to know when exactly they were making what. My gut says Martin was first, but I could be wrong.
Other than Conn, who else put naked women--and I do mean those suffer from a "wardrobe malfunction"--on saxophones? Clearly F.X. Hüller was.
Based on this, I would offer up another type of collectible sax:
Different brands, but whose engraving depicting naked women, or perhaps pick an engraving type eg: Nazi eagles, etc, are consistent.
Conn was probably the most prolific in the engraving world. I've only seen a couple "portrait"-engraved Bueschers and HN White Kings. I've seen many very elaborately engraved Martins, but no people. I think I've seen a Selmer (Paris) or two with portraits. European horns? Not much. Definitely the Hullers and some (extremely uncommon) CA Wunderlich horns. I've seen several Italian-made horns with lots of engraving, but no people.
Selmer and SML offered some horns with more-or-less no engraving, other than the company logo, in Europe. I'd think that was probably the fashion in Europe.
In any event, Conn had custom engraving available for a significant amount of time. I've seen gold-plated Connquerors with a lot of engraving, but not much after that. So, using a very general date -- because I'm not checking the dates -- if you're talking big-time custom, factory-original engraving in the US, you don't have to look later than around 1941.
Selmer and SML offered some horns with more-or-less no engraving, other than the company logo, in Europe. I'd think that was probably the fashion in Europe.
In any event, Conn had custom engraving available for a significant amount of time. I've seen gold-plated Connquerors with a lot of engraving, but not much after that. So, using a very general date -- because I'm not checking the dates -- if you're talking big-time custom, factory-original engraving in the US, you don't have to look later than around 1941.
There was a German alto saxophone offered on eBay a while back. Stamped on the bell was the specific Luftwaffe eagle, different from the ones used by the Heers (Army) and Kriegsmarine (Navy) during the Nazi era. (All three of the services make up the Wehrmacht, although that term is commonly used to refer to the German army of the period.)
(The auction service pulled the thing from sales before anyone won the auction.)
What puzzles me about such an instrument is that Hitler was specifically oriented against the saxophone, it being Nazi policy to ban the damn'd things as symbols of Western (i.e., Belgian) decadence. Mind you, Herman Goering's Luftwaffe was both a bit more "fashion forward" and independent than the other two services. I could see the young, "with it" pilots wanting a taste of the forbidden fruit of jazz as filtered through Luftwaffe-stamped saxes, at least the 1930's version of same as played by a hotel orchestra running through Johnny Warrington stocks.
The 'official' replacement for the saxophone, from what I have read over the years, was the 'cello. Imagine the front line of Benny Goodman's group, with two viola de gambas, two 'cellos and a double bass. How the hell would you be able to stand up for the last chorus during Sing, Sing, Sing (Part 1)?
(The auction service pulled the thing from sales before anyone won the auction.)
What puzzles me about such an instrument is that Hitler was specifically oriented against the saxophone, it being Nazi policy to ban the damn'd things as symbols of Western (i.e., Belgian) decadence. Mind you, Herman Goering's Luftwaffe was both a bit more "fashion forward" and independent than the other two services. I could see the young, "with it" pilots wanting a taste of the forbidden fruit of jazz as filtered through Luftwaffe-stamped saxes, at least the 1930's version of same as played by a hotel orchestra running through Johnny Warrington stocks.
The 'official' replacement for the saxophone, from what I have read over the years, was the 'cello. Imagine the front line of Benny Goodman's group, with two viola de gambas, two 'cellos and a double bass. How the hell would you be able to stand up for the last chorus during Sing, Sing, Sing (Part 1)?
The guys from the famous Charlie and his Orchestra managed to escape the rule by changing the words of many popular song of the time...and they kept their saxes blowing; Ach !
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mDvdmMxYj34&list=AL94UKMTqg-9BmId5NoubQm11HriMnyitd
J
The Horn: http://thesax.info/gallery3/index.php/CA-Wunderlich
I posted more info and links on Helen's website at http://bassic-sax.info/blog/?p=36225 (in the Comments section).
What about special fingering systems like the Leblanc Rationale? And that french sax with the almost sideways bell?
2 points -
Not i.e., but e.g. Sorry to be pedantic, but it's misleading.
The sax was associated with jazz/black music which was strongly deprecated and fell foul of the racism inherent in nazi ideology.
Guess I'll get an auto mod for this post..
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Potato, potahto...the thrust there was that those or that "not of the pure faith" were not worthy of inclusion in the German way of life. Whether of African or Belgian extraction, the music most associated with the saxophone was "not invented here".
There's a "picture" book out on the "Germanic" experience that is chock full of this feeling. Lotsa traditional German folkways, Kulture and the like.
There are two photos in that book that really impress. One is of four or five naval Zeppelins, all hovering over a landing ground in northern Germany. Those things were really huge, much larger than our super aircraft like the C5A.
The other is one that may explain why Adolph got as far as he did. It was taken at some opera opening, with the Leader photographed in the midst of a group of adoring society women. With him all dressed up in formal wear, wing collar and the like, you can get a glimpse of what captivated Germans - the fire in his eyes is in full evidence.
There's a "picture" book out on the "Germanic" experience that is chock full of this feeling. Lotsa traditional German folkways, Kulture and the like.
There are two photos in that book that really impress. One is of four or five naval Zeppelins, all hovering over a landing ground in northern Germany. Those things were really huge, much larger than our super aircraft like the C5A.
The other is one that may explain why Adolph got as far as he did. It was taken at some opera opening, with the Leader photographed in the midst of a group of adoring society women. With him all dressed up in formal wear, wing collar and the like, you can get a glimpse of what captivated Germans - the fire in his eyes is in full evidence.
By the way, the N+5 word is as likely to get a post moderated as the N+3 word, at least here in the US of A. Unless you happen to be a rap "musician", using the N+5 word is a big no-no in these parts. Pass yourself off as a rap "artist", and you can use it with gay abandon.
While on the topic of bell markings, I have seen a German bass clarinet with the bell stamped with a Heers eagle (i.e. or e.g., a German Army stamp) instead of the Luftwaffe branding. In that, it is similar to many older American horns that have US military stamping on the bells. (There were also some company-owned horns (i.e./e.g., the Erie Railroad) that had the same, although it was in the form of simple lettering rather than fancy insignia.)
I have an old movie (titled Dirigible) that features some footage of a US Navy "dance band" playing at a party. However, the film grain is just too pronounced to pick out anything stamped or engraved on the bells of the saxes.
While on the topic of bell markings, I have seen a German bass clarinet with the bell stamped with a Heers eagle (i.e. or e.g., a German Army stamp) instead of the Luftwaffe branding. In that, it is similar to many older American horns that have US military stamping on the bells. (There were also some company-owned horns (i.e./e.g., the Erie Railroad) that had the same, although it was in the form of simple lettering rather than fancy insignia.)
I have an old movie (titled Dirigible) that features some footage of a US Navy "dance band" playing at a party. However, the film grain is just too pronounced to pick out anything stamped or engraved on the bells of the saxes.
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I'm biased and this may be a bit of a stretch, but I would definitely add a Stowasser tárogató to that list as an interesting saxophone variant. It was designed by Josef Schunda and/or Janos Stowasser because they were offended by the metal body and big keyed holes of Sax's baby. With a proper mouthpiece and moving away from the Romanian conception of tárogató as nationalist assault weapon (with repertoire and tone to match), a good tárogató has a beautiful darkish sound. Benade says they have a purer overtone series than saxophone, by which I suppose he means more balanced ratio of partials. And the open finger holes make some nice shadings possible, FWIW
Just as some adore the bass clarinet over the saxophone, it's only right and proper that some should feel the same way about the tárogató (which I hope conveys the proper meaning of the word without all of the diacritical marks - we in the English speaking world get off easy in that regard, excepting only stuff like façade). If nothing else, both have the fact that they are not alto clarinets going for them.
Hey, it's a kymarto sighting!
I can definitely think of including the taragato. However, I don't want to go too far from "sax collecting" into "well rounded woodwind player." For the sake of example, I think that sax players should also learn how to play clarinet and flute because it makes you more employable and valuable as a musician. However, I wouldn't have a problem with a saxophone collector not having a clarinet and flute. It's obviously a fine line, too: the taragato is a conical bore and does sound a lot like a soprano sax, but (historical version, at least) the taragato isn't meant to be a saxophone replacement and doesn't have the same fingerings as a sax. A Sarrusophone, for instance, is theoretically a double-reed, of course, but it has mostly the same fingering as a sax, can have a single-reed mouthpiece and was used as an Eb contrabass sax replacement.
I can definitely think of including the taragato. However, I don't want to go too far from "sax collecting" into "well rounded woodwind player." For the sake of example, I think that sax players should also learn how to play clarinet and flute because it makes you more employable and valuable as a musician. However, I wouldn't have a problem with a saxophone collector not having a clarinet and flute. It's obviously a fine line, too: the taragato is a conical bore and does sound a lot like a soprano sax, but (historical version, at least) the taragato isn't meant to be a saxophone replacement and doesn't have the same fingerings as a sax. A Sarrusophone, for instance, is theoretically a double-reed, of course, but it has mostly the same fingering as a sax, can have a single-reed mouthpiece and was used as an Eb contrabass sax replacement.
Sorry. I missed this.
* I've already mentioned interesting keywork. Note that the Leblanc Rationnel, Leblanc System or Semi-Rationnel do not have different fingering systems. They just have a bunch of keys and a few extra features. If you're talking a full keywork system -- like the Albert keywork system for clarinets -- you have to go to Jim Schmidt's design, one of the one-handed horns that are out there or an Aulochrome. I am not aware of any other completely unique keywork systems beyond these examples. However, if anyone does know of one, I'd be incredibly interested!
* The French sax you're referring to is the Dolnet M70. You definitely have a point on that one. I'd possibly lump that in with bell-key design or possibly one of the straight alto/tenor variants. Again, I'm not aware of any other saxophone that had its bell offset like the M70.
Yep.
I've mentioned that I've heard that Buescher used the Rothophone as their Eb contrabass sax alternative. Catalogs from the 1920s do mention Rothophones, but I tend to doubt that Buescher actually made them. Also interesting is that I don't see a mention of a contrabass Rothophone anywhere.
Speaking of, the best examples would be of baritone saxophones:
* A. Sax: big ol' key for the low B on the back of the bell, i.e. just above your right hand.
* AE Sax: left-side bell keys
* Conn Wonder: Split bell keys
* Conn New Wonder (post 1928ish): right-side bell keys
* Buescher 400: B and Bb on the back iof the bell, but a bit to the side
* Selmer SBA: (probably) first baritone sax with a low A (Conn-O-Sax, an F alto, is the first large production horn with a low A; A. Sax produced the first low A saxophones)