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Should I buy a modern sax???

I've also heard this from one of my instructors, "If you tune a note on your sax, how many notes are in tune on the instrument." The answer of course is "none".... I'm guessing over 95% or more of all sax players are young students, hobbyists, and the like. We need to consider them in the equation.

The best exercise IMO for developing the inner ear and the familiarity with the instrument to combine the two, is to practice with a steady drone tone. Get together with another horn player. One player holds a steady drone note. The other player matches the unison, and then plays all the 5ths, 4ths and major 3rds (above and below) to that drone, holding the notes long enough to get the intonation to "lock' on each. Do it in every key. When you can do that, then play all 12 chromatic notes to the drone. Each note has a slot that you can feel, where it sits just right, even the dissonant half-steps and tri-tone.

What you will quickly discover, is that on many of the intervals, your horn, no matter if it is vintage or the latest modern wonder, is really out of tune. You have to do a lot of adjusting to get in tune, and the placement of a note changes with the tonality. I've seen grad students who thought they played in tune, break into tears with this exercise. So,if we are truly concerned about intonation, the only thing any player, pro or hobby, really need consider as part of the equation, is that no matter what horn you have, good intonation comes from the player. There is no such thing as an in-tune instrument.
 
I know a few of those "tuner on the stand" folks, and I just don't see how they do it. My old mind has enough problem with keeping up with playing the notes in tune "with the horn", watching the tempo, and so forth, much less trying to center up a tuner on any note slower than an eighth.

Of course, spending so much time trying to blend with the trombones when playing baritone may help me enough to get by without that floating light display or needle...
 
That sums it up pretty well, Helen. I'd like to add that, the fact that the saxophone has keys and defined fingerings, does not make it a piano, with a fixed pitch for every note - just push the buttons and blow. It's more like a violin or cello, where there are note positions, but the actual control of the pitch of the note, is up to the player and his/her inner ear.

The sax is more like a guitar than a violin. Moving your finger on a violin is no guarantee of anything resembling the note you are seeking. With frets you are in the ball park - just like playing a saxophone. The right finger combination is close enough for most to recognize what you are playing.
 
Slightly off topic, but can anyone explain the logo on the Couesnon at all? There must be some history or story behind it: An axe and rooster head. What's that about?

Well the cockerel is easy (ok, you guys call them roosters). The cockerel has been associated with France for centuries. The latin name of a cockerel is similar to the name of someone from Gaul (as France was in Roman days) - Gallus v gallicus.

What looks like an axe could be a horn. Whatever it is appears to come out the top of a bundle of sticks, or possibly a tower.

In the notion of "if you don't ask, you'll never know" I have emailed the current Couesnon company to see if they have any idea.

For interest, the current company web site is: http://www.pgm-couesnon.com/historique.html

And a close up of one of my clarinets

Couesnonlogoaftercompressed.jpg


Chris
 
Consider the shiny, again. If you're the parent of $beginner_student, are you going buy the horn that looks beat up or the one that's shiny?
Recently a student came with his parents so I check an old Conn they were considering buying. The mom mentioned how much nicer an older instrument is when it looks older in comparison with a new one. Like there is a story behind it.But yes some prefer new and shiny. A lot of parents, being ignorant about instruments, are affraid of buying something used in bad condition without knowing. I've seen that happen, and often it's not really a scam, the seller doesn't know the real condition too (even if they are a real player).
 
Re the two YouTube clips comparing the new and old C sopranos, these clips don't compare the instruments. I've heard much more expensive and supposedly better instruments sound much worse than either, but also much cheaper instruments sound better than both. It has nothing to do with the instrument.

There were intonation problems in the playing of the new C soprano. I recognize the player as someone who I saw often in Musikmesse, mostly near the Eppelsheim stand. At some point some other player (have no idea who it was) came and tested the new C soprano. He sounded better than most players I've heard, and completely different from this YouTube clip. Excellent intonation, incredible range, tone, etc. Sounded much better than either of those clips really.
 
The axe in the bundle of sticks is a fasces, a symbol of justice in the original form. These were carried by officials of the Roman Republic on the flanks of the current censors or consuls as they marched in procession to the seat of the Roman government. The bundling around the axe represented the forces of the state (as represented by the axe) supported by the people (who are represented by the sticks).

Later on, they were adopted by the Italian government under Mussolini; in fact, a triple set of fasces in a circle was the emblem found on Italian aircraft of the period.

Below is a particularly nice illustration of a fasces, adopted as part of the emblem of a particularly awful political organization, Mussolini's Fascist Revolutionary Party:

175px-National_Fascist_Party_logo.jpg


All of those years of studying the Italian fascist movement finally came in handy...
 
Terry

That is fantastic - the picture is almost identicle but for the position of the axe. There seems to be no end to your talents (other than the self imposed avoidance of the alto clarinet)...

I might give the Couesnon company a couple of days before bailing them out of the "what" - still interested to know if there is a story behind the "why"

Chris
 
I'm still liking my horror story the best so far. But then horror fiction has always been my favorite genre. ;-)
 
And then the penny dropped...

The reason the fascist movement got its name was likely to be from the fasces symbol then ...

Der. Just call me lightening

Though adopted by Mussolini, it seems to be adopted elsewhere too:

The House of Representatives beside the flag

HouseII.jpg


Seal of the Senate

USSenateSeal.jpg


Chris
 
Let's see. Where is that topic of this thread being discussed? It must be around here somewhere. :)
 
Terry, you never cease to amaze me with your knowledge about the most unusual things. Thank you for that information on the fasces, I had never heard of it before.

Chris, way to go. The seal of Senate certainly does look similar to the centre piece of logo of the Couesnon company. I wonder if the company stylized a fasces with the bell of trumpet or coronet, because as you say Chris, the logo does resemble a horn. It certainly would make more sense than an axe! Hopefully the Couesnon company will get back to you with an answer.
 
Shiny, Fasces, old Conns, C sopranos, stinky horns, Kings and drones. I'm so confused!

Well if you want to get really confused, you have to go back to the beginning, and then you get the Selmers thrown into the mix, as well as a few other things.

I think we could safely name this the everything and kitchen sink thread. Great for people with ADD, not so good if you're a linear thinker. :emoji_rage:
 
The axe in the bundle of sticks is a fasces, a symbol of justice in the original form. These were carried by officials of the Roman Republic on the flanks of the current censors or consuls as they marched in procession to the seat of the Roman government. The bundling around the axe represented the forces of the state (as represented by the axe) supported by the people (who are represented by the sticks).
Praetors also were entitled to a display of fasces. I find it pretty spot on for most societies that the sticks/people support the axe/state. The axe sure does a good job in sticks, doesn't it?

Later on, they were adopted by the Italian government under Mussolini; in fact, a triple set of fasces in a circle was the emblem found on Italian aircraft of the period.

...

All of those years of studying the Italian fascist movement finally came in handy...
Why did you spend so much time studying the Italian fascist movement. Is this something the office of homeland security should concern itself with?

I concentrate on the Roman republic. The more I read about it, the less new there is under the sun in terms of political schemes and diatribes. They sure had it all nailed down.

Oh, and Rory, you should buy my Toneking Special in 100% silver plate. Modern ergonomics, vintage sound, and wicked good looks that will put it in the 2011 calender, right Pete?
 
[Geek=ON] I know of fasces from three places, before mention in this thread:

* Ancient Rome. Comes from taking Latin in HS & college.
* Coin collecting, specifically the "Mercury Head" dime. Produced 1916-1945. I had several in my collection, which I sold for my first pro-level alto sax, a Buffet Dynaction.

Oh. SOTSDO is into military stuff. I know several people that were both in or not in the various US armed services that are into that as a hobby. Hey, I'm also fond of the Military Channel. Especially as several of my relatives were in various service branches during WWII and later.

So. Nothing for CARNIVORE to see here! (Google it -- if you dare. Bwahahahahaha!)
[/geek]

I am still collecting pics for the 2011 Sax/Woodwind calendar or calendars. I still haven't gotten many pics, yet.
 
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